Ep 07: Taking the UX-First Approach

[00:00:00] Genny: What’s up marketing geeks. Welcome back to SEO unfiltered. Today, I’m here to talk about UX or user experience at geeky tech. We optimize our customers’ webpages using UX principles in order to make each webpage intuitive, easy to read and enjoyable to navigate. But as it turns out, UX is so much more than that.

User experience applies to physical products, software and websites alike. To give you a simple example of good user experience. Imagine a recipe from a mommy blogger website that has a buttload of sweet, but irrelevant content that you have to scroll through before you actually get to the recipe at.

Self someone who’s paying attention to UX will add a jump to recipe button at the top of the page, which allows us to skip right down to the bottom, to the recipe card, without needing to scroll through loads of text. I know this example isn’t quite relevant to what geeky tech does, but it’s an example we can all relate to.

User experience is such a big topic and one that’s so important to your rankings, but from what I’ve seen is really all about incorporating common sense and even a little empathy into your. So here to discuss user experience with me today is beta Jarrah, a senior UX designer for the Canadian red cross and someone who had years of experience in designing everything from apps to websites, to products.

Hi beta. Thanks for joining me today. Hi Jenny. So let’s start today’s topic with this question, which is, can we first get a clear and simple definition of user experience?

[00:01:25] Bita: Well, I wish I could give you the simple answer you want but user experience does not have an official or standard definition. Okay.

Um, UX design is a commitment to building products that are created with the customer in mind. Okay. And yeah, it’s a starts with studying who the users are, what they need. What are their frustrations. Okay. And taking that information to provide products and services that improve the quality of people’s users lives.

[00:02:00] Genny: Oh, okay. I like that. That’s easy to follow. Okay. So what’s the difference between user experience and user interface? Cuz when I was looking it up, I couldn’t really separate the.

[00:02:12] Bita: Uh, you are not the only one so everyone has this question. Okay. And normally even us, we talk about it most of the time and we cannot figure it out.

But yeah, I can say you are, or user interface is what you use to interact with the product. Okay. What UX is concerned with, how this overall interaction feels? Oh, well you. Yeah, like you, uh, interface user interface can be a button, can be a form, but UX is the logic or the psychology behind it. So the user interface is the point of human computer interaction and communication on a device website or application though, UX is the art and knowledge of generating positive emotion.

true product interaction. Oh,

[00:03:09] Genny: wow. So it’s all psych psychological.

[00:03:12] Bita: Yeah. Cool. Yeah. You have to know about human psychology a lot. Oh, wow. That’s so

[00:03:17] Genny: fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I know that you are also an amazing artist, so you’re definitely the best person to explain to me the difference between now graphic design and UX design.

[00:03:30] Bita: Well, thanks for, calling me an amazing artist. You’re

[00:03:34] Genny: who follow you on Instagram. It’s so beautiful. Okay.

[00:03:37] Bita: Thank you. So I, yeah, I worked as a graphic designer for so many years. Okay. And, um, I noticed one of the biggest differences between graphic design and UX design is the scope. Okay. Like graphic designers, focus on visual elements.

Okay. And. Static visual content. It can be print materials. It can be it’s normally about the marketing. Okay. It can be print. It can be online, but normally static visual content. Okay. They use colors, typography, text, and images to communicate a message. Through visual design mm-hmm and then UX designers take a broader perspective by focusing on the entire interaction between a user and a product.

So let’s say graphic design is often just one part of the bigger user experience. Okay.

[00:04:28] Genny: But do they work, um, with UX designers?

[00:04:32] Bita: Uh, they can, but normally UX designers work with UI interface designers. Oh, graphic designers, mostly working, um, in marketing agencies. Okay. Or working on advertisement. Okay. Okay.

So UI designer is the person who’s working, uh, with the UX designers.

[00:04:56] Genny: Okay. Okay. Good to know. So. Moving on. I was just wondering, what are some misconceptions about UX that you probably hear a lot?

[00:05:07] Bita: Oh, there are a lot there are a lot. Yeah. And I think because, uh, the term UX is still so vague for so many people mm-hmm or even for us, mm-hmm , um, it’s not a new thing, but still new.

Okay. And, but the one I hear a lot. As, uh, UX and UI are the same thing. Okay. Yeah. That’s what I, yeah. Yeah. But the thing is they’re not separated and you can say it’s nearly impossible to work on user experience without considering the user interface and vice versa. Got it. Got it. But they’re not the same UX is about how users feel when they use a system or product and UX.

In fact is the biggest. Or the bigger picture with UI being just one part of it. Okay. Uh, another, another thing that I hear a lot, which, uh, you’re rolling your

[00:06:07] Genny: eyes. yeah.

[00:06:10] Bita: is like a perfect design is enough for UX. I even hear this. UX designers. Okay. Like they think that if design something beautiful or modern or minimal they’re done.

Hmm. Well, yeah. Beautiful design is always a good solution when it comes to UX. However, on its own, it does not guarantee the success of a system or product. Even if your user, I. It’s cool. Your website is beautiful. It’s modern. It still needs to be tested for the usability. Oh, okay. Yeah. do you want more example?

[00:06:54] Genny: Well, I mean, I think that that one, um, definitely strikes a core with, uh, us too, because we, we do say that a lot. You can have an absolutely stunning website, but if the person doesn’t even know where to find the contact page, then what’s the point. . Yeah, exactly. Do you have any, do you have anything else?

That’s really juicy

[00:07:12] Bita: uh, yeah, this one that I, uh, even hear at my workplace. Okay. UX means fewer clicks and fewer clicks means happier users. Ah, interesting. Yeah. Like people think that the UX designer job is to reduce the amount of. it sounds a good idea, right? yeah. Yeah. Because as humans, we are inherently lazy and, and tend to do less to save our energy.

We learn it to, to survive. Okay. But yeah, but fewer creeks, it doesn’t necessarily warrant a good user experience. So.

[00:07:59] Genny: So that that’s another thing. So as in, just because you have fewer clicks doesn’t mean that the, um, experience is any better. No.

[00:08:08] Bita: Yeah, exactly. Because what you want to do is create something that, uh, reduce the frustration of user, right.

When they’re doing a task. Okay, so you, you just, uh, want to, I don’t know. You want to, uh, put everything, let’s say you have a website and you want to put all the content content on the first page, right? So user cannot, uh, doesn’t need to. You know, go to the inner pages. Yeah. To find help, to find the form, to find information in need, because you want to create less click.

Ah, okay. But you know, even in SEO, mm-hmm you need to have the block page. Yeah. You need to have the FAQ page because the horizontal links can bring you more, uh, can increase your, uh, rank in Google. so, uh, so that’s, that’s, uh, that’s a misconception. Mm. So does

[00:09:14] Genny: that mean you have to fight that, um, amongst your coworkers fight

[00:09:18] Bita: to have more cliques, not more cliques, but reasonable amount of cliques.

Okay. you are not gonna put everything on the landing page. Okay. Uh, or on the homepage, because you think that people. That much lazy that they, or they, they don’t want to click, so you have to put everything there for them. Okay. No. Okay.

[00:09:43] Genny: That makes sense. I like that. Okay. Do you, uh, do you have any more, do you want me to stop

[00:09:49] Bita: well, I’m gonna say the last thing.

Sure. Go for it. But I, I, I have no comment about this one. Okay. This is the one that I love the most. Okay. Uh, it says UX is about make, uh, making things be. So, okay. But, so I have no comment about this

[00:10:10] Genny: well, I mean, from, based on what you were saying earlier, it’s not just about making things beautiful. It’s about the, how humans feel, how you make humans feel humans.

People. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Does that mean that a psychology degree would help in, uh, this department?

[00:10:27] Bita: It does. It does a lot. Okay. Actually I know so many. Uh, UX researchers. Yeah. That they have degree in psychology.

[00:10:38] Genny: Interesting. Yeah. And it really does it really help their career? Yes. Yeah.

I can imagine. Yeah.

[00:10:47] Bita: that’s I think the best two fields, uh, or either art. Yeah. Or psychology. Okay. But people with a degree in psychology, they tend to go towards. Research. Okay. And that is not only about the digital products, right? They can, um, I don’t know. They can go, let’s say to, um, to Costco mm-hmm to a big, uh, you know, store.

Or warehouse and they can change the whole environment based on people’s psychology. Oh,

[00:11:26] Genny: wow. The so UX is really far reaching. Yes. That’s, that’s amazing. Yeah. That’s so cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, sorry, now that we’ve cleared all that up and I know you have no comment about, um, UX being beautiful. Um, but can you tell me why is it so important?

Not just for the end user, but also for your business.

[00:11:46] Bita: okay. Uh, let me explain something here first. okay. Uh, when talking, we are talking about, uh, UX, we always says we have to place user throughout the design process. Right? You user experience design involves understanding user needs, pain points, goals, right?

Rebuild user personas, create user journeys, journey maps. It all sounds right. Designers’ job is to meet user expectations. Okay. And bring the joy of using the product. Right. However, UX design also must meet business goals and objectives. Right. It is start with an understanding of the product vision, like the reason for having this product from a bus business perspective.

Okay. The target market to be considered. And then, uh, the issues that this product can solve. Okay. This means the website or applications. Objective must be clear from the beginning is not only about our. End user is about the business objective also. Okay. So keep this in mind. So why businesses have to apply UX or user experience?

Mm-hmm because a bad UX can cost businesses a lot of money. Okay. For ex for example, you are, uh, setting your product on your website. if visitors are discouraged from purchasing, do a bad experience. Well, they will leave and they never come back. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Fair enough. So not only that, but bad UX can also have a very damaging effect on how your site

[00:13:42] Genny: ranks.

Okay. I was just gonna ask you that. Okay. Sorry. Do you wanna, do you want to, um, expand that a little? So how does it affect your ranking? Yeah,

[00:13:52] Bita: of course. Uh, well we know because we work or we work in this industry. Yeah. And we know that the primary concern for business owners building website in past years has been SEO.

Right. Build a website that ranks well in Google and boom. You’re done. the money. It doesn’t matter what the user’s experience is, as long as they are on the website. Okay. So where does UX come into this? Well, we know the, the job of landing page website is to solve problems for the, for the, for the visitors.

Yeah. Doing this well results in a long click. Like, they’re gonna stay longer on your website. Mm-hmm doing this badly in a short click. They’re just gonna click and leave. Okay. If a user cannot find information, they are looking for quickly, they will head a straight back to the search engine. Okay.

Sending a signal that your site did not satisfy their search. Okay. , you know, be, uh, because Google can track Chrome user activity, they can see how people are using your website. Right. Are they clicking two pages more quick, quickly than leaving? Mm. Do you have a lot, a low pages per visit, average or user getting lost in your.

These are all signals of bad UX that Google can see and penalize your site in favor of a better performing competitor. Hmm. Also let’s not forget about responsiveness. Okay. Your site is better to be responsive so that people can check it out in their mobile. Yeah. And which we know now that can increase your Google.

[00:15:53] Genny: Yeah, so I would say, yeah, that’s very important. I’m trying to break down UX into more simplified termina. Yeah. Just sort of condense it a little bit. So what would you say are the three main, the three main rules for successful UX design? If you

[00:16:10] Bita: could think of three yeah, not are a lot, but the UK three of them, uh, I can say the first thing.

uh, as to involve your users from the beginning. Okay. Like do to the research, define your, uh, problem, create your, um, problem statement. Do you have to work with your users? Okay. You have to talk with them and you have to define it. Okay. And then the second thing is, uh, I can say, consider the cognitive load.

What’s. you know, people already have mental models about how websites work. Oh my God. Based on your past experiences, visiting other websites, this is how we learned. Right. Sorry. I

[00:17:00] Genny: really like that term.

[00:17:02] Bita: Yeah. And so what you have to do is when you’re designing, uh, you have to try to reduce the amount of learning they need to do on your website.

Got it. That’s why you are not gonna follow all the trendy, right. Uh, things that you see. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because people, they have to learn and they are not there on their, on your website to learn mm-hmm and then the last thing I can say is, uh, keep things simple. Okay. You know, um, normally we have to design website for scanning, not reading.

Because people will do the least amount of work possible to get, to get a task done. Yeah, I can. Yeah. I’m definitely

[00:17:53] Genny: one of those people but I really like that. Keep it simple. The websites that I like using the most are so easy to follow, really clean, nothing too messy.

[00:18:05] Bita: I know, because as humans, we don’t even like to read anymore.

Yeah. You know, I do, I do use a better testing at work to test the features that I’m designing. Yeah. And I have to create a task okay. For the user, for the participant. And I just notice that people don’t even want to read the task. I’m learning, I’m learning their behaviors. I’m trying to reduce as much as I can.

So, but still. Still, they don’t want to read, especially people who are working in, uh, in tech.

[00:18:46] Genny: Oh, really? So that’s a trend you’ve noticed. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They just, they, all they care about is code. I guess.

[00:18:55] Bita: not only that it can be, I don’t know. Um, even the content writer. Yeah. It can be, uh, QA, uh, you know, analyst or.

It can be a business, uh, on the list and they just, uh, open the, the task and they’re like, oh, okay. I’m gonna go and start clicking around. I’m like, but you have to, you have to read it. you have to read it first. Okay.

[00:19:21] Genny: Duly noted. So yeah, people are lazy. Keep that in mind. Always. yes. That’s kinda

sad,

[00:19:28] Bita: but yeah, I guess.

Yeah. So keep things simple.

[00:19:32] Genny: Yeah, I agree. I think that within the SEO industry, if that’s what you wanna call it, there’s a tendency to take a Google first approach when it comes to designing and optimizing websites, which means that we’re always thinking, okay, what I need to do to this page to make sure Google gives it the highest ranking possible.

But can you tell me why taking the Google first approach? Isn’t always the wisest first

[00:19:52] Bita: step. I’m not sure about this, but okay. . But, uh, I can say it is not the Wises first step because the first step always, uh, has to be, uh, to get to know your user’s needs. Okay. That’s that’s the first thing we have to do, who are our users?

Mm-hmm and why we are designing this. Okay. So that’s the first step. after that. Of course we know we need an SEO friendly website yeah. To show up on Google when people are searching for your product, but you also need to create a good experience right. For the visitors. Right. So people can find what they want to buy or use mm-hmm

And so I’m not totally against this, but yeah. Users. Needs first.

[00:20:50] Genny: Okay. So sorry. Would it be fair to say instead that before you even build your website, you should know who your customer is. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. Cause I could see that you are uncomfortable with that question.

[00:21:06] Bita: You have to know your, uh, your customers.

You have to know what what’s, what’s the reason behind designing this website. Okay. Who who’s gonna use it. Mm-hmm so I, I, you know, I understand that, uh, finding a balance between, uh, being user and EO friendly, it’s a conflict. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve been in the situation where the CEO team wanted to ensure the website had enough content.

So that Google could rank it successfully. Mm. And as a UX designer, I wanted to build a stunning and functional website with a good user experience. Mm-hmm and this was so challenging, but let’s keep in mind that the website needs to be SU optimize and user friendly. And I think Google, I was checking and I.

Um, Google has refined its, uh, criteria. So that user experience related me, uh, metrics factor into rankings, right? Yeah, I think so, because yeah, because now Google only wants to rank the best sites mm-hmm to prevent its own user experience from being impacted by poor websites. Right? Yeah. So.

[00:22:37] Genny: Yeah, it’s in their best interest too, to, um, push the good ones at the top to up to the top.

Exactly. Okay. Uh, okay. Vita, because you have such a trained eye. Can you tell when a website hasn’t been designed by UX designer?

[00:22:53] Bita: Uh, well, okay. Normally. The first glance at the page influences the impression okay. About whether it would be easy to use or has been designed by UX designer or not. So you see large fronts mm-hmm in a wider space, beautiful paddings and marching.

At first glance mm-hmm makes of website or application seems easier to use mm-hmm so for me, normally I see the user, I. Yeah, and I can, I can feel that, okay. This has been well designed. Mm-hmm and when I use it, uh, I see the usability. I see the aesthetic and minimalist design. I see the responsiveness. I see when I want to let’s say.

buy a product mm-hmm and the, the website send me the right notifications confirmation. Show me the, the steps. Yeah. Yeah. That shows that someone with the knowledge worked on it. Okay. Okay.

[00:24:09] Genny: Yeah, cuz I can tell too, especially when I have to go like, uh, filling out a form or having to go step by step. If I get no, if I do all these, uh, fill out a form and press send and I don’t get a confirmation that it’s been received, I’m like, oh no.

Did it work?

[00:24:24] Bita: yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:26] Genny: Simple example. Okay, cool. Well, this is kind of related. I was just wondering because you have to always think. Simplifying your website and making it easy to use and user friendly. Uh, how does a company apply their own unique style or branding? Uh, if UX is all about keeping it simple and intuitive seems really, really limiting.

[00:24:49] Bita: It’s not because keeping, keeping it simple and minimal doesn’t mean using a flat design. Okay. Like people think that when they’re talking about the minimalist design, it means to reduce everything from the page mm-hmm , uh, and UX wants this, but that’s not true. Okay. It’s about making sure you are keeping the content.

and visual design focus on the user’s need. And when we are talking about minimal design, it means reducing the design clutter and bringing design clutter, what matters to the forefront. Okay. Which is the content. Okay. So how a company apply their style? Normally companies, they have branding style branding guide mm-hmm their, their own standards.

They define their type of. Colors. So they have all those things. So whether UX designer, uh, or here we can say UI designer can do is they cannot go and create a design system based on their company, branding guide and standards. And they’re gonna keep consistency across multiple channels. Like let’s say, uh, because UX is about the psychology, right?

So, uh, one of the main things we are doing is building trust with the, you know, uh, uh, or build building customer trust, right? When a customer opened your website and see the familiar color, uh, colors, the familiar font, the familiar content, which can. on their Facebook yeah. On their Instagram account. So that builds customer trust.

Okay. So this is how they can use their own unique style and design. Okay.

[00:26:55] Genny: Yeah. That makes sense. I never actually even thought of that before. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:27:01] Bita: uh, I can say one of the biggest, sorry. One of the biggest responsibility of UI designers yeah. Or is creating, uh, design. okay.

[00:27:11] Genny: Yeah, but that also, that gets into every little facet of a website, doesn’t it?

Yes. Yeah. Even down to the size of the button.

[00:27:21] Bita: Yes. And all the it’s, uh, stakes, like however disabled, you know,

[00:27:30] Genny: activate God, that must take forever everything to set that

[00:27:32] Bita: up. Yes. Yes. But it’s gonna be a unique, you know, uh, kind of language. And in the future, it reduce the redundancy. Okay. So whatever you need, you’re just gonna go and, uh, use it and it helps, uh, developers.

Right. They can see all the color code, all the font, all the sizes and everything. It’s like a great reference for

[00:28:00] Genny: everyone, right? Yeah. That makes sense. Are there any current web design trends that really annoy you?

[00:28:07] Bita: uh, Okay. I don’t wanna say, uh, say it,

[00:28:12] Genny: say it .

[00:28:13] Bita: No, I don’t wanna say trend, uh, style, but I can say one thing on the website that I see it’s annoying me anything.

I see. They copy from mobile design to the websites. Nice. On bigger. Like, uh, hamburger menu. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like that, that three dots that icon has been designed to be used in a smaller devices, like phone, because you don’t have space. Why you have to put it on your website. When I see that I’m like, oh my God, what is this why you have to do.

Are you trying to hide your content? Mm-hmm are you trying to, you know, confuse or frustrate your users? Are you trying to hide what’s your website about okay. Or creating more clicks? Maybe, maybe. Oh, that’s

[00:29:22] Genny: interesting. Never even thought of that, but yeah, I do see that a lot too. Yeah,

[00:29:27] Bita: did I, I, I think some of the, sorry, some of the designers think that whatever is on, uh, whatever happening in, uh, mobile design application design.

It’s so cool. So. Let’s take them and shrink them and use them on the bigger devices. Mm. Like websites and, uh, for, for desktop. Yeah.

[00:29:52] Genny: Yeah. And I guess everything’s mobile first, so maybe they’re just, they just don’t even bother changing the look. I don’t know. Okay.

[00:30:00] Bita: I don’t know mobile first, first, but, uh, you are not gonna take everything and shrink them.

It’s true. You’re gonna, I dunno, you’re gonna do.

[00:30:11] Genny: Well, is there any, is there any trend that you really like?

[00:30:14] Bita: I see something that I really love. I just saw it recently. Uh, there was an engaging interactive, uh, kind of animation. It was like a game on the website. Oh. That when you would move your, um, mouse. Uh, your cursor and there was a little, uh, car following and going to different places.

So I remember even I had that type of website before for my portfolio, the banner or the hero yeah. Was animation. Like you would move your, you know, mouse and everything would move. But now I see, um, the whole website. It’s at interactive, uh, when you scrolled down and it’s beautiful. I love it. Oh, wow.

[00:31:09] Genny: Yeah, I, do you remember what website that, that was now?

I’m curious.

[00:31:13] Bita: No, but I can find it and send few later.

[00:31:17] Genny: Yeah. Okay. So I think I only have a few more questions. One of them being, I was wondering, where do you think UX is going to look like in the next five years or five years from now?

[00:31:29] Bita: I hope it’s not gonna die. . Because so many people are joining to this film.

Okay. With different backgrounds and, uh, yeah. So I hope that’s, uh, that’s not gonna kill you X, but I see that there are so many people that, uh, I had some calls from friends and they ask me if they. If this field is, uh, good for them to join. Okay. Because they can make a fat salary or whatever that was their motivation.

Okay. And then when I explained it for them, they were like, oh, okay. No, that’s not that much easy. So forget it. Yeah,

[00:32:10] Genny: no, I can imagine it’s very like back. Well, not backbreaking, but it there’s a lot to. .

[00:32:15] Bita: Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm and so I hope it’s not gonna die, but I’m sure UX will not die or fade away. Mm-hmm and now we see there are, uh, more technologies come forward, like AI yeah.

Or virtual reality, or I see some people are working on, um, user experience of drones. Ooh. So what, yeah. They’re ex that’s crazy. Yeah. They’re exciting. And even voice comments on, um, for the cars, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, there are so many, uh, opportunities to improve user experience, but my hope is, I know I said that there’s so many people joining to this field.

My hope is, uh, like UX designers. Um, Also improve their skills to shift from focusing on interface towards human centered design. Okay. So learning about the psychology, just not go, uh, work based on your bias and create something. Right. Because it’s beautiful. Yeah.

[00:33:30] Genny: Yeah. I think that’s important or sounds like it’s very important cuz we.

Yeah, just the psychology behind it is so fascinating to me because you always come with your own set of, um, beliefs and experiences. Yes. And, but that’s not necessarily true for everyone. Exactly. Exactly. Are you able to share with us what you’re working on these

[00:33:51] Bita: days? Oh yeah. It’s been three years. Okay.

That I’ve been working on a web-based application. Okay. For the Canadian red cross, it’s a huge application mm-hmm and understand. Proud of being part of this team, because it’s the first time that Canadian red cross is creating an in ho in house, uh, digital solution. Wow. And it’s already launched people like, um, uh, red cross staff, Canadian red cross staff and volunteers are using it to register, uh, to reduce the people who are being impacted by different emergencies in Canada.

Okay. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s in kind, I can say meaningful mm-hmm application. That’s gonna save so many people life and time. Yeah. Wow.

[00:34:51] Genny: Yeah, that is incredible. I could just see the, from the smile on your face that you’re really proud of. Yes, I am. .

[00:34:58] Bita: That’s awesome.

[00:35:00] Genny: Aww, Pete, I have one last question and that is okay.

If you could give anyone out there who is looking to revamp their website, you could give them any piece of advice. What would that be?

[00:35:13] Bita: Okay. Uh, first your website needs to be you optimize, but also user friendly. Okay. So the two, yeah, mm-hmm. Improving your website and user experience are the essential part of any marketing strategy.

Okay. And you have to be sure that your website works well and it’s easy for a visitor to navigate. Yeah. So they can find information they’re looking for. UX is not expensive. Okay. It will bring you. A lot more than you invested. Okay. Yeah. And the last thing, stop, copy to the designs, big flashy, or I don’t know, whatever you see that your competitor has stop copying those.

Try to understand your objective and your users. And that’s copying turn. The design will not give your user. Oh, that

[00:36:17] Genny: is solid advice. Wow. Okay. Well, Viton on behalf of geeky tech and every human on the planet who has ever used the internet before. Thank you so much for coming onto the show today. I find this topic so interesting because it really reminds all marketers out there that.

Beneath all of this SEO talk, there are human beings on the other end of every website and the importance of that cannot be exaggerated and listeners. If by listening to this episode, you realize that your website could use a serious dose of optimization. We at geeky tech are always here to help.

Remember that UX is all about making your websites intuitive and easy to navigate. So it doesn’t matter if your site is a work of art. If the user can’t figure out how to move from one page to the next, you aren’t taking the user’s experience seriously. Thank you very much beta and, uh, yeah. Look forward to talking you soon and seeing what, seeing more of your art.

Thank

[00:37:03] Bita: you. It was great talking to you. It was a great conversation. Yes, it was. Thank you.